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	<title>Comments on: 8-9th June: Hikurangi School</title>
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	<link>http://tbond.edublogs.org/2007/06/18/8-9th-june-hikurangi-school/</link>
	<description>We need to educate our students for their future not our present</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 00:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: [BLOCKED BY STBV] bb king bar and grill</title>
		<link>http://tbond.edublogs.org/2007/06/18/8-9th-june-hikurangi-school/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>[BLOCKED BY STBV] bb king bar and grill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;bb king bar and grill...&lt;/strong&gt;

Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>bb king bar and grill&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Thanks for the nice read, keep up the interesting posts&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Peter King</title>
		<link>http://tbond.edublogs.org/2007/06/18/8-9th-june-hikurangi-school/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your detailed response Trevor
I will follow up the virtues link
At present I am inclined to feel most comfortable with virtues being seen as varying degrees of combination of attitudes and behaviours that we value. I chose compassion as my example as that is our current virtue focus.

With reference to ethics, again, I am tending to see them as both a set of generally accepted behaviours or standards that we adhere to when operating in a given context.

I shall ponder further on these thoughts and yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your detailed response Trevor<br />
I will follow up the virtues link<br />
At present I am inclined to feel most comfortable with virtues being seen as varying degrees of combination of attitudes and behaviours that we value. I chose compassion as my example as that is our current virtue focus.</p>
<p>With reference to ethics, again, I am tending to see them as both a set of generally accepted behaviours or standards that we adhere to when operating in a given context.</p>
<p>I shall ponder further on these thoughts and yours.</p>
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		<title>By: tbond</title>
		<link>http://tbond.edublogs.org/2007/06/18/8-9th-june-hikurangi-school/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>tbond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Peter, you asked a few interesting questions and I will attempt to answer them based on my current understanding, which is very much open to revision.

First you asked “Where do we categorise things such as compassion?” 
Without referring to the concept of virtues, I would have defined compassion primarily as an attitude. If I have an attitude of compassion then I am likely to act with compassion. 
Now if I look at The Virtues Programme I see that they define compassion as “understanding and caring when someone is hurt or troubled, even if you don’t know them”. This definition is attitudinal but also assumes that relevant behaviour and action will follow. 

You mentioned ‘virtues’ which seem to be commonly classified as ‘a valued human characteristic’, ‘a good character trait’, ‘a valued human characteristic’ or ‘an operative habit essentially good’. To me one could easily get confused if we pursued a large collection of definitions. Augustine’s definition of an ‘operative habit’ speaks to me of behaviour, whereas the other three definitions allow me to comfortably hold the stance that a virtue can be either an attitude or behaviour that is commonly held to be ‘good’. 
The Virtues project states that virtues are “the essence of the human spirit and the content of our character” ( http://www.virtuesproject.com/virtues.html ). This still allows me to comfortably hold with the concept that virtues can be either attitudes or behaviours because these are the ‘content of our character’. Let us take compassion… I may be classified as a compassionate person because I have a compassionate attitude and generally act with compassion, however at times I may also act ‘out of character’. 
I note that the Virtues programme lists 52 virtues and I think you have been kind by choosing compassion as an example. I would have more difficulty with some of the other virtues, for instance ‘idealism’. I would tend to classify this as a concept that would lead me to have an idealistic attitude that would then govern my behaviour in different situations.

Another question posed was “Where do ethics fit into this?”
Ethics seems to be generally defined in two main ways, firstly as ‘the study of values and customs of a person or group’ and secondly as a “code of professional standards” for any particular group of people. So in the context of schools we would then have a professional set of standards for teachers which would sit under the banner of our professional ethics, or we would categorise this discussion as being an ethical discussion because we are discoursing about what we value.
I think that discussions of our beliefs, the things those beliefs lead us to value, the attitudes that result form those beliefs and value statements and the resulting behaviours all fit under the broad label of ‘ethics’. However for most of us the term ethics is most strongly linked to the concept of acceptable standards of behaviour for a group of people. So it depends which definition of ethics you are using when you ask the question “Where do ethics fit in?” If you are holding the first definition then ‘ethics’ is a broad noun that encompasses this whole discussion, if you hold the second definition then ‘ethics’ sit most strongly in the area of behaviour.

I look forward to further discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Peter, you asked a few interesting questions and I will attempt to answer them based on my current understanding, which is very much open to revision.</p>
<p>First you asked “Where do we categorise things such as compassion?”<br />
Without referring to the concept of virtues, I would have defined compassion primarily as an attitude. If I have an attitude of compassion then I am likely to act with compassion.<br />
Now if I look at The Virtues Programme I see that they define compassion as “understanding and caring when someone is hurt or troubled, even if you don’t know them”. This definition is attitudinal but also assumes that relevant behaviour and action will follow. </p>
<p>You mentioned ‘virtues’ which seem to be commonly classified as ‘a valued human characteristic’, ‘a good character trait’, ‘a valued human characteristic’ or ‘an operative habit essentially good’. To me one could easily get confused if we pursued a large collection of definitions. Augustine’s definition of an ‘operative habit’ speaks to me of behaviour, whereas the other three definitions allow me to comfortably hold the stance that a virtue can be either an attitude or behaviour that is commonly held to be ‘good’.<br />
The Virtues project states that virtues are “the essence of the human spirit and the content of our character” ( <a href="http://www.virtuesproject.com/virtues.html" rel="nofollow" onClick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/www.virtuesproject.com');">http://www.virtuesproject.com/virtues.html</a> ). This still allows me to comfortably hold with the concept that virtues can be either attitudes or behaviours because these are the ‘content of our character’. Let us take compassion… I may be classified as a compassionate person because I have a compassionate attitude and generally act with compassion, however at times I may also act ‘out of character’.<br />
I note that the Virtues programme lists 52 virtues and I think you have been kind by choosing compassion as an example. I would have more difficulty with some of the other virtues, for instance ‘idealism’. I would tend to classify this as a concept that would lead me to have an idealistic attitude that would then govern my behaviour in different situations.</p>
<p>Another question posed was “Where do ethics fit into this?”<br />
Ethics seems to be generally defined in two main ways, firstly as ‘the study of values and customs of a person or group’ and secondly as a “code of professional standards” for any particular group of people. So in the context of schools we would then have a professional set of standards for teachers which would sit under the banner of our professional ethics, or we would categorise this discussion as being an ethical discussion because we are discoursing about what we value.<br />
I think that discussions of our beliefs, the things those beliefs lead us to value, the attitudes that result form those beliefs and value statements and the resulting behaviours all fit under the broad label of ‘ethics’. However for most of us the term ethics is most strongly linked to the concept of acceptable standards of behaviour for a group of people. So it depends which definition of ethics you are using when you ask the question “Where do ethics fit in?” If you are holding the first definition then ‘ethics’ is a broad noun that encompasses this whole discussion, if you hold the second definition then ‘ethics’ sit most strongly in the area of behaviour.</p>
<p>I look forward to further discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter King</title>
		<link>http://tbond.edublogs.org/2007/06/18/8-9th-june-hikurangi-school/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Having found my way to this thought I would let you know that. I feel comfortable with the notion of treating "Value" as a verb. Having done so, where then do we categorise things such as compassion (Which we also refer to here as a Virtue). Am also wondering where ethics fit into this in light of the conversation we had last week. Perhaps ethics, using your approach, are something that we value as would our Values/Virtues such as compassion. Perhaps it would help to explore compassion at a deeper level and ask "what does it look like?" For example compassion is about empathetic listening which is a skill.

Be interested in your thoughts on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having found my way to this thought I would let you know that. I feel comfortable with the notion of treating &#8220;Value&#8221; as a verb. Having done so, where then do we categorise things such as compassion (Which we also refer to here as a Virtue). Am also wondering where ethics fit into this in light of the conversation we had last week. Perhaps ethics, using your approach, are something that we value as would our Values/Virtues such as compassion. Perhaps it would help to explore compassion at a deeper level and ask &#8220;what does it look like?&#8221; For example compassion is about empathetic listening which is a skill.</p>
<p>Be interested in your thoughts on this.</p>
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